What was the Russian Plan?

[zedteamk2]

So they produce these rifles and then store them. Once out of storage it takes some effort to make them ready to use....
What was the Russian plan if they had to use them? It seems it takes at least a little skill, and a decent amount of time to make one useable.

[Miller Tyme]

It really takes little skill to clean cosmoline, cut a 55 gal barrel in half, add 10 gal of deisel fuel and let it soak.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Two fold, to issue to last ditch militia in the event of a Western Invasion, and to use to arm commie "freedom " fighters in other countrys like Cuba.

[zedteamk2]

Is that the thinking of 1940's Russia or more recent Russia?
It just seems to me that making one of these useable is a bit beyond the average ( communist) soldier of the time.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Cold War Russia, these refurbs were done starting after WW2 right into the 1970's, the militia part would be pure insanity, our forces would have blown the shit out of them.

[BuckeyeSgt]

The Russians put their best equipment in their first echelon. These were meant to go into the attack first. Followed up by the second echelon with a little less inferior equipment to take atvantage of any progress made. In the worst case scenario the third would have been sent in to exploit any gains or shore up any gaps in the line. At the time the T72 would have been first followed by the T62. Same went for small arms. I imagine the Mosin would have been regulated for the third eschelon, rear guard and security at home. They fell behind the power curve during the GPW quickly and vowed for it to never happen again.

[Bugelson]

It just seems to me that making one of these useable is a bit beyond the average ( communist) soldier of the time.

You gotta be kidding?? That's some serious underestimation, if you are serious... Sure, during WWII many Soviet soldiers were poorly trained, some not at all. But on the other hand they were not cretins, feeble minded or mentally defective. After WWII conscripts were trained, just like in any army. And seriously, what training does one even need when "making one useable" after storage? Really even the debil next door could do it.

And wars don't get started in hours. Time would not have been a problem. Every army storages it's gear so that it allways takes some time to make the gear operable, no matter what the gear is. But it does not take that long to sort that out, be it a Mosin-Nagant rifle or Ambrams tank.

[tjtM38]

I don't read anything into it other than the Soviets were trying to do everything possible to protect the Motherland against another future invasion similar to Operation Barbarosa. The perceived need to preserve the rifles took precedence over the short time it would have taken to prepare them for combat.

[rustytruck]

Maybe the future capitalists among them thought some day there might be thousands of people who might want to buy them and examine every stamp and mark!

[SA1911a1]

Is that the thinking of 1940's Russia or more recent Russia?
It just seems to me that making one of these useable is a bit beyond the average ( communist) soldier of the time.

I don't understand where you are coming from with this.

The post war Russian soldiers were not cave men. These guys operated complex equipment like, trucks, tanks, artillery, missiles, and nuclear weapons...... After all this is the army that defeated the "Master Race." Cleaning grease off a rifle would not have been much a challenge to them.

Also, if the big war with the West actually began, it would not be like they just had 15 minutes to prepare. The Soviets had tens of thousands of very good tanks on the border with their potential enemies. (us) Enough tanks, in fact, that we were very concerned about the security of Western Europe. They would have had time to clean their rifles and do some training, before large infantry battles developed.

[Ironnewt]

So they produce these rifles and then store them. Once out of storage it takes some effort to make them ready to use....
What was the Russian plan if they had to use them? It seems it takes at least a little skill, and a decent amount of time to make one useable.

They produced the rifles and issued them to their troops for combat use. When the troops were demobilized, their equipment went into storage. We don't know how many people were involved in the refurb process but a country the size of the USSR would have had enough people to set up a shop to put their equipment back in working order. Working at a place set up with the tools to do this on a production line basis it would not take all that long to clean up a rifle to basic working order.

[Junk Yard Dog]

The program might have had some merit in the 1940's, but by the mid 50's it was already a gigantic waste of resources, but typical of the Communist system,. Work is guaranteed to all, so work has to be created to employ all. That and once a project got rolling with approval of high ranking party members I took on a life of it's own. To cancel it would imply that it had been wrong in the first place, and those who supported it as incompetent, that could not be allowed to happen. Refurbishing and storing away bolt rifles that were obsolete even during WW2 and doing it in the 1970's? Nobody needed them by then, there were already three generations of Soviet infantry rifles to replace them, SKS, AK47, and the new AK74, more than enough AK's to supply any possible need.

[Bugelson]

That is well put about the refurbishment process and it's history, JYD.

[desdem12]

Well whether it was needed or not I have to say it worked out very good.........
For me any way. I guess they would have been around somewhere else though if not refurbed.

[Junk Yard Dog]

They would look like Turk Mauser's.

[wolfstein]

The program might have had some merit in the 1940's, but by the mid 50's it was already a gigantic waste of resources, but typical of the Communist system,. Work is guaranteed to all, so work has to be created to employ all. That and once a project got rolling with approval of high ranking party members I took on a life of it's own. To cancel it would imply that it had been wrong in the first place, and those who supported it as incompetent, that could not be allowed to happen. Refurbishing and storing away bolt rifles that were obsolete even during WW2 and doing it in the 1970's? Nobody needed them by then, there were already three generations of Soviet infantry rifles to replace them, SKS, AK47, and the new AK74, more than enough AK's to supply any possible need.

I really enjoy your history lessons. I am learning a lot from you.

[sdkfz181]

Also, keep in mind, I seriously doubt that if a war was eminent and the Mosins were brought out of mothballs that they would be as concerned with getting them to collectors quality. I am sure they would be cleaning up the metal making them safe to fire, and just get the wood serviceable.

[zedteamk2]

By this "It just seems to me that making one of these useable is a bit beyond the average ( communist) soldier of the time."
I meant, if i walked out onto the street and handed a cosmoline covered rifle to someone ( not a good idea really ), and told them, you need to clean this now so you can defend yourself. At least 25% would have no idea what to do, or possibly shoot themselves in the foot.
In the hands of a trained soldier... i believe a even a sling shot could be quite effective. But that's not how i envisioned the bulk of the Russian military at the time ( or at least a large chunk).
I was referring to a quickly trained, hurriedly established army (obviously not all of the army was quickly trained).
No offense was meant or implied towards any military members past and present. If it was interpreted that way, i apologize.

The thought behind my original post was, what was the plan for quickly bringing these rifles into use.

[Miller Tyme]

By this "It just seems to me that making one of these useable is a bit beyond the average ( communist) soldier of the time."
I meant, if i walked out onto the street and handed a cosmoline covered rifle to someone ( not a good idea really ), and told them, you need to clean this now so you can defend yourself. At least 25% would have no idea what to do, or possibly shoot themselves in the foot.
In the hands of a trained soldier... i believe a even a sling shot could be quite effective. But that's not how i envisioned the bulk of the Russian military at the time ( or at least a large chunk).
I was referring to a quickly trained, hurriedly established army (obviously not all of the army was quickly trained).
No offense was meant or implied towards any military members past and present. If it was interpreted that way, i apologize.

The thought behind my original post was, what was the plan for quickly bringing these rifles into use.

In this country if you did that I bet 50% wouldn't know what to do with it other than get greasy.

Since the earliest days of the Revolution the Russians where taught that everyone was there enemy and as such they all had some sort of firearms training as they grew up, it was part of there school curiculum.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Don't be so sure about people in this country. I once handed a Garand to a ten year old, He proceeded to remove the trigger group, separate the buttstock from the action, and named most of it's major parts and how they would come apart if I would give him the combo tool. I asked him were he had learned this considering I knew he owned no firearms, neither did anybody in his home. Video games and the internet, no shit, he knows how to load it without risking "Garand thumb" also. He knows the AK47 even better.