CVA Plainsmen Flintlock

[iwuzwhatiwuz]

Are the CVA flintlocks any count? I've read that the Traditions flints are surprisingly decent but cannot find much info on the CVA. Thanks!

[Junk Yard Dog]

CVA introduced many shooters to the flinter and black powder back in the 70's, they are plain, working guns, not a copy of any one type, just a representation of the overall style of the early 19th century. I have CVA products, no problems with them.

[Darryl]

CVA also had a line of "kits". You could buy it made or buy a kit and make it.

I have a few kits I made and they work well. I started "shooting BP with CVA.

Darryl

[tjtM38]

When I bought my Lyman Trade Rifle, I actually took a 40 mile trip to the store (I still don't think they do any online stuff). This was a store called Dixon Muzzleloading in Kempton PA. I knew nothing about a flintlock, so I needed some help from someone who knew. Their behind the counter sales people were knowledgable and trusted by all who had ever dealt with them. They said the main consideration when buying a commercial flintlock rifle (as opposed to a custom build) was the quality of the lock and the frizzen. They recommended the Lyman because the rifles had the hardest, highest quality frizzens, good locks and decent quality barrels for a mass-produced rifle. I have not been disappointed. You could call them; I'm sure they would be glad to answer any questions:

http://www.dixonmuzzleloading.com/

[iwuzwhatiwuz]

Thanks everybody. I'm looking to get a flintlock sometime soon and want opinions on what's good and what's crap. Any advice given is greatly appreciated. I wish there was a good muzzle-loading store in Western NC.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Not in NC, but at least not on the other side of the world
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/

[qz2026]

Flintlocks are the ultimate in cool, aka . But there are flintlocks and there are FLINTLOCKS. Suppose you have to figure out what you want to use it for and how much you want to spend. I'm not a hunter so I have no need for .50 cal plus rifles. Mine are all Pedersoli .45's. I might be talked into letting one go...

[entropy]

CVA Are all overall good quality; I've never owned one of their flintlocks, but I've shot a few, and they were fine. I still want a Tower pistol, or a Howdah pistol, though I'd prefer the Howdah in percussion.

[iwuzwhatiwuz]

Flintlocks are the ultimate in cool, aka . But there are flintlocks and there are FLINTLOCKS. Suppose you have to figure out what you want to use it for and how much you want to spend. I'm not a hunter so I have no need for .50 cal plus rifles. Mine are all Pedersoli .45's. I might be talked into letting one go...

Oh yeah? What kinda "talk" are we talking about ? I would love to drop $600 plus on a nice flintlock but the money isn't there for that. I was thinking of getting an Traditions or CVA Flintlock to get my feet wet. I could up grade the lock with a L&R and put in a "White Lightin' " touch hole liner later if need be. Most of what I've read says that both Traditions and CVA's locks work surprisingly well. Is this a bad idea? Thanks all! Wish I would of made the thread title "Beginner Flintlocks"...

[qz2026]

Flintlocks are the ultimate in cool, aka . But there are flintlocks and there are FLINTLOCKS. Suppose you have to figure out what you want to use it for and how much you want to spend. I'm not a hunter so I have no need for .50 cal plus rifles. Mine are all Pedersoli .45's. I might be talked into letting one go...

Oh yeah? What kinda "talk" are we talking about ? I would love to drop $600 plus on a nice flintlock but the money isn't there for that. I was thinking of getting an Traditions or CVA Flintlock to get my feet wet. I could up grade the lock with a L&R and put in a "White Lightin' " touch hole liner later if need be. Most of what I've read says that both Traditions and CVA's locks work surprisingly well. Is this a bad idea? Thanks all! Wish I would of made the thread title "Beginner Flintlocks"...

You know that I think JYD did a long instructional post recently for another new flinter. Can't remember the title but maybe you could search on Flintlock. Your estimate is pretty close to what I would sell them for. At retail they are $100-$200 more expensive. They really jumped in price a couple of years ago.

[Junk Yard Dog]

I did a post on flintlocks? I might have talked a bit about them, but shooting flinters is a lot more than just the firelock. Yes, a good sparking frizzen is needed, and decent lock geometry to start with , but then we move into the skills of the shooter. Keeping a flint properly napped so it's sharp and strikes the frizzen at the correct angle. How not to overfill a pan, and the correct granulation of powder to use. People get carried away with gear, but fact is in 1760 you would have had a handmade smoothbore musket, no fancy touchhole liners, no machine cut flints. maybe the bore is straight, maybe off just a bit, and the "powder" here in the Americas would be questionable at best, and heavy grain for sure. It was all one size, and that was rough/large, if you wanted a finer powder you ground it yourself....very carefully. Musket balls were crude cast in iron molds, grain weight unknown, heavy sprue, cast lines, voids in the lead from temperature fluctuations. No fancy pre cut patches with super lube, you had bear fat with no patch, or a bit of old paper or cloth if you could find either. You knew that you would still be shooting the same musket in 1790 so you kept it up well, washed it out with hot water from the kettle over the fire and lubed it with bear fat, or whale oil if you could afford such a luxury. No powder measures, you measured it by eye from your horn, and likely never got the same weight charge twice. You used as little powder as you could get away with because powder was expensive and had to be store bought, you became an expert at judging how much charge was needed to reach the target and kill it. And don't think for a second that any of these " handicaps" stopped 1760 Americans from being expert marksmen even with smoothbore muskets, they were, their lives depended on it. They practiced with the firelock until it became an extension of their eyes and arms, they learned every habit that weapon had.

Soldiers had it a bit better, same shit powder, the English powder of that era was anything but the refined product we have today, but they had cartridges. Cartridges were rolled bits of paper with a ball at one end and powder at the other, the ends tied with a bit of string or just folded over. The powder end of the cartridge was ripped open with the teeth, a small bit poured in the pan, pan cover snapped closed, rifle uprighted, main charge poured down the pipe, then ball with the remaining paper rammed down on top of it. Shoulder firelock, make ready ( full cock) Aim ( point in the direction of enemy, no sights on these barrels) fire. If done right the weapon will discharge with no delay between pulling the trigger, flint striking steel, pan ignition, and main charge ignition, no delay that the shooter should be able to notice anyway. This would only work for the first four or five rounds, then a quick wipe of the frizzen face and flint with the sleeve of your coat will be needed to wipe off the fouling, and after 20-22 rounds the bore will be hopelessly fouled so bad you can't ram another ball down it without a washout. A soldier in King Georges army was expected, and in fact could load and fire three shots a minute from a brown Bess musket.
That CVA will do just fine for you as a starter flinter, it's already a higher quality product than most colonists had to work with .

[Junk Yard Dog]

Before you get into flinters be sure you can secure a good supply of real black powder, a flintlock will not work well with a BP substitute, if it ignites at all it will be a whoosh..........boom. Duplex loads are possible, that's real black in the pan, real black for the first five grains of the main charge, then the remaining amount in the sub of your choice.

[qz2026]

There are a lot of good books out there and some YouTubes on loading, firing, and cleaning a flintlock. Find Goex powder and follow your rifle manufactures instructions on which powder to use for the main charge and which to use in the pan. You really don't need a finer grain for the pan. I use 3Fg for my main charge and 4Fg for the pan for a .45. I could just as easily prime it with the 3Fg. You will know when to clean the barrel when at the range - you won't be able to ram another ball down the barrel-but don't wait that long. Not really clean, I usually spit on a patch and clean the barrel. No wimpy cleaning rods. Get a good rod that you can use at the range and at home cleaning. One thing for sure, if you are using black powder it is really dangerous - handle with care. A spark will cause an explosive ignition as compared to smokeless powder which burns much slower. Read up and get to know some local flinters who can work with you. Shooting these flintlocks are a blast (in more ways than one) and there is nothing better than the smell of black power except maybe cosmoline akd Russian axle grease - did I say that?

[Junk Yard Dog]

I use 1F in the big bores, pistols and muskets, .69-.75 2Fin all the regular pistols ,45-.50, 3F in the revolvers, and 4F in the pan primer. In times when I couldn't get black powder easily I made do with whatever I could find, even canon powder.

[qz2026]

I use 1F in the big bores, pistols and muskets, .69-.75 2Fin all the regular pistols ,45-.50, 3F in the revolvers, and 4F in the pan primer. In times when I couldn't get black powder easily I made do with whatever I could find, even canon powder.

That's like the consistency of gravel???

[Junk Yard Dog]

Not that bad, but definitely coarse. Lean times back before ATF allowed BP to ship by mail to anyone, nobody here carried it and I had a guy bringing me some down from Vermont when he went hunting, and he brought whatever he could find.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Big bores like the Bess were designed to use such powder

[iwuzwhatiwuz]

I was bidding on a CVA Plainsmen on Gunbroker. I wasn't willing to go above $250 because I didn't think that the CVA was a better rifle than a similar Traditions that I know I can get for $250 or there about. Am I right or do I need to pony up for the CVA?

[Junk Yard Dog]

Either rifle will be good for what you want, no need to pay more for the CVA.

[iwuzwhatiwuz]

Are the Jukar made rifles any good?