1930 Izhevsk serial number 37

[rangerkeeler]

Hello, I have posted to several forums with no response. I am a long time collector, and just got back in to a few Mosin's. I recently picked up a 91/30 and realized that it was serial number 37, made in 1930 and after doing some more research that it might be one of the first 37 made! Doesn't look like a Dragoon, and I know that there were some prototypes made in 27' etc. Please help! Would like to know if there is some collector history here, and yes it was refurbished in Ukraine possibly. However, the barrel was never taken off of the receiver and there appear to be some other original parts... Ok, cannot add pics yet but any info is appreciated! There are no alpha numbers before or after, it is just 37

[BuckeyeSgt]

Welcome to the Forum. They started over with each year. It most likely was #37 off the line in 1930. Pics tell the whole story though.

[clayshooter2]

Post pics! I have already seen your pics on Gunboards, but everyone here would like to see them too. As I said there great find!

Take pics of the rear of the rear sight base, that is how we can tell if it is an updated Dragoon or not. Yes, regardless the low serial number makes it collectible if nothing more than that. In 1930 prefixes were not being used yet so "37" is the whole serial number, prefixes were used to hide the production numbers during the war.

Oh yeah, welcome to the forum.

[BuckeyeSgt]

Hey don't feel bad if you post something and no one responds. I posted a wz31 and got nothing really. People like to comment on what they know about. I'm still trying to figure it out. It was just too cheap for what little I did find.

[rangerkeeler]

Thank you everyone for the welcomes:) I am going to try and post some pics...

[rangerkeeler]

Here is another pic, more to come. I am having issues with resizing

[racerguy00]

Congrats on your find. The gap under the rear sight in your last photo shows that you have an ex-deagoon rifle. Dragoons were made concurrently with 91/30s for the first few years of the 30's. You have obser of the first off the line in 1930. It originally had the same sights as the older model 91 infantry rifle: these were removed and replaced when the rifle was upgraded/refurbished.

I just had an interesting thought. Since these rifle models (91/30 and dragoon)were produced concurrently at the same time at the same arsenal, I assume each model had its own serial number range, 1 through whatever. It should be possible in that case to have both an ex-dragoon and 91/30 with the same year/arsenal/serial number.

[rangerkeeler]

The tang is marked 1929 Izhevsk...

[rangerkeeler]

Congrats on your find. The gap under the rear sight in your last photo shows that you have an ex-deagoon rifle. Dragoons were made concurrently with 91/30s for the first few years of the 30's. You have obser of the first off the line in 1930. It originally had the same sights as the older model 91 infantry rifle: these were removed and replaced when the rifle was upgraded/refurbished.

I just had an interesting thought. Since these rifle models (91/30 and dragoon)were produced concurrently at the same time at the same arsenal, I assume each model had its own serial number range, 1 through whatever. It should be possible in that case to have both an ex-dragoon and 91/30 with the same year/arsenal/serial number.

Thank you for the info! I always wondered about the Dragoon, it is interesting to know if they were made concurrently!! The tang is 1929 Izhevsk as well.. Very interesting rifle the more I find about it:)

[clayshooter2]

Rangerkeller, there may be a true Holy Grail proto type from 1930 that is a true 91/30; but I don't think it exists. First you have to take into consideration the whole transitional 91/30 that was going on at the time. Everything was transitional from 28 on. Stalin's 5 year plan was in effect and things were changing, but early 91/30's also had blade front sights and Panish bayonets. I have yet to see a 1930 true 91/30 as we know them today. I think this is an updated Dragoon that may or maynot have been fitted with a Panish bayonet when it left the arsenal. No way to tell after the many refurbs this rifle has probably been through. What we do know is it is the 37th 91/30-Dragoon/whatever you want to call it that left the arsenal that year. The low serial number alone makes it desirable in itself. You found a prize.

[clayshooter2]

Dave, I disagree. I think that Dragoons and 91/30's were one and the same at that time and did not receive their own serial numbers. They were just made slightly different as cars of the same make, model, and year can be changed thru out the model year.

[racerguy00]

Yeah, that's very possible. It was just something that popped to mind that I hadn't thought about before.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Serial numbers, low ones are cool looking and all, but otherwise they mean nothing. To confuse an enemy that might be trying to figure out their production amounts by checking captured rifle serial numbers the Soviets mixed numbers around. They might start a year production run at 30,000, and swap mid year, or earlier and go back to 10,000, or 1000, or add a prefix and use the same numbers over again. In the US we started with serial number 1 and went up from there in a straight line, not so with the Russians, there is no way to tell just now when in the year 1930 your rifle was made . Welcome to the forum

[racerguy00]

JYD, I'm not sure this was the case before the alpha numeric prefixes were added. Many many low serial numbered mosins carry receivers dated from the previous year like the one posted here. They weren't completed until the following year so the dates are a year off. This is different than a recycled receiver. I've seen this with mosins dated from the 1800's on up.

After finding my first SCW 91/30, ithilsdorf's SCW database got me interested in tracking where various 36 and 37 dated mosins turned up. There are definite patterns that indicate the numbers started low and went consecutive for those years. That kind of research was exactly the type of thing the soviets went to the prefixes to prevent.

[rangerkeeler]

You guys are very helpful, and I want to say thankyou as I have received some good points of history here. If there are any more pics you need let me know.

[bunkysdad]

You sure found a good one from what I can see. We will look forward to any and all extra pictures as you get time, and welcome to the Forum.

[Mike]

JYD, I'm not sure this was the case before the alpha numeric prefixes were added. Many many low serial numbered mosins carry receivers dated from the previous year like the one posted here. They weren't completed until the following year so the dates are a year off. This is different than a recycled receiver. I've seen this with mosins dated from the 1800's on up.

After finding my first SCW 91/30, ithilsdorf's SCW database got me interested in tracking where various 36 and 37 dated mosins turned up. There are definite patterns that indicate the numbers started low and went consecutive for those years. That kind of research was exactly the type of thing the soviets went to the prefixes to prevent.

I have a '32 Izhevsk with a '31 tang date, the serial number is 66436 so it wan't just the low serial number ones that got an older receiver.

[Junk Yard Dog]

JYD, I'm not sure this was the case before the alpha numeric prefixes were added. Many many low serial numbered mosins carry receivers dated from the previous year like the one posted here. They weren't completed until the following year so the dates are a year off. This is different than a recycled receiver. I've seen this with mosins dated from the 1800's on up.

After finding my first SCW 91/30, ithilsdorf's SCW database got me interested in tracking where various 36 and 37 dated mosins turned up. There are definite patterns that indicate the numbers started low and went consecutive for those years. That kind of research was exactly the type of thing the soviets went to the prefixes to prevent.

1800's? Like so many other things about the Mosin the Russians aren't talking, at least not to us, K-H (Karl-Heinz Wrobel, author of "Drei Linien, Die Gewehre Mosin-Nagant" ) was the one who explained the serial numbers to me years back after I picked up a two digit serial number refurb and thought I had something special ( and valuable ) I had thought he had access to some documentation to back it up, however I can't read the required German to read his books and get the full answer. After that small disappointment I paid little attention to serial numbers.

[desdem12]

[Rongo]

There is no prefix before the serial number.... Is there on any of the other parts?

Most likely things got ground down & re-stamped in the refurbishment process.... More detailed photos would be helpful to discern if that is indeed the case. At any rate, It's a fine looking 1930 Izhevsk... Much more desirable than a Tula since they made fewer of them in these years.

Excellent example & welcome to the forum.