Everything Semi and Automatic is discussed here. Can be Military or civilian.
AK's, AR's, FN, VZ, FAL, and so on. (Post WWII)
Preservation forum, please no altered military surplus handguns or discussions on altering in this forum (On Military firearms only). Please read the rules at the top of each forum.
rustytruck wrote:From Centerfire's website: "This is an original Vepr hunting rifle." From Molot!
I almost wish I hadn't looked... That is one beautiful AK.
So? This isn't a remanufactured mosin. Molot builds the vepr series of rifles. It's not a war time collectable or anything special other than its an AK based rifle that's chambered in x54r. To discount the level of quality that the vepr is due to the fact that it has been made by molot is silly. These veprs are known to be on par if not equal to an arsenal AK.
Easy there! I wasn't discounting the quality of the VEPR, it just struck me as funny that the arsenal that has everyone up arms over refurbs makes probably the nicest AK available. And I think it's funny everything has to be labeled "hunting rifle".
Nobody said Molot wasn't doing good work on what they build, only that they are altering the rifles from original by doing quick refurbs for no better reason than to command higher prices during resale. As collectors we want the rifles as they last left government service, a government refurb is fine, but not commercial aftermarket ones. Molot is part of what was once the Soviets Izhevsk arms facility, The current AK's they make are very likely being made on the same equipment that made them for the Soviets during the Cold War.
Vjatskiye Poljany is Molot JSC happened in '92, izhevsk is now izhmash JSC and are now competitors in bringing in firearms to the civilian market although they do share engineering developments between in each other when it comes to firearms developement. Both Vjatskiye Poljany and Izhevsk (as you know) were state run arsenels producing arms for the russians for use in battle. This changed in the 90's but
I can understand the reasons why you guys frown on MOLOT mosins, since they might be re-arsenaling them for us to buy. But to say "FROM MOLOT! wished I hadn't looked" gives the connotation that even other rifles that Molot produces are somewhat inferior due to the name. Right or wrong, I really don't care and it makes for good convo. No hate or heat felt, just reading it for what it was worth and giving my two cents back. Due to text being emotionless, its tough to discern where the poster is coming from.
But yeah I do hear you rusty on exactly that and maybe thats why I read too much into what you typed initally, Vjatskiye Poljany or MOLOT was a state run arsenal from the 40's to 92, making weapons for the russian army, but now that they had been cut loose by the russian govt to fend for themselves, they are all of a sudden frowned upon if they touch a mosin for resale.
Yes if they are indeed rebarreling mosins or even restamping them (unlikely to me) then yep they are taking away from the historical nature of the mosins they are selling. Do I care, a bit, but I do have 3 others that arent Molots to help me through that. My M44 is a molot, and is fine piece of weaponry, the barrel although nice isn't near as nice as my CAI or the 89 buck shooter I got from aim. The wood while nice, it still rashed by use or storage. Is it any less of a collectable item due to molot marking??? Not in my book. Will I sell it as a collectable?? LOL who sells their firearms?? I did that once with a SKS....NEVER again. What I buy I keep. For the 199 or 219 after shipping that I paid for it, it was still a hell of a deal for a M44 at the time.
Thanks again, this board still rocks and JYD you are still a cool dude in my book and so is Rusty
MOLOT history lesson from the vepr board I frequent.
To understand the history of these rifles, really is to understand a considerable portion of the history of industrial Russia, both under and out from under the rule of communism. The history of the factory, or company that we now refer to just as MOLOT, in fact, dates back to 1940, though the name MOLOT was only coined in 1992.
1940 was a particularly uncertain time in the Soviet Union, where the soviet union was still attempting to avoid involvement in open hostilities with Germany, having already once been invaded by Japan, and making its own power known by invading Poland, only to sign off on a trade accord with Nazi Germany.
The future of the Soviet Union at this time was very much in question, at this point, and those in power were well aware that the world was changing around them. It was in 1940 that Russia adopted the PPSh, the prolific submachine gun designed by Georgiy Shpagin and decided to begin production of these new machine pistols in the town of Zagorsk, not far from Moscow.
When, the following year, open hostilities broke out between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, it became immediately apparent that Zagorsk Arsenal was in risk of being seized by invading forces, and the decision was make to move production further to the east, not far from the existing Izvesk Arsenal. It was assumed that concentrating the knowledge combined in the two factories would help both, and allow the Izvesk Arsenal to show the new fledgling factory the ropes and get Vjatskie Poljany arsenal up to speed that much faster.
In October of 1941 the new arsenal in Vjatskiye Poljany started production, and within a month began delivering much needed PPSh submachine guns to soldiers at the front. Throughout the war, the Vjatskiye Poljany Arsenal played a crucial role in supplying soldiers with small arms. During the period between October 1941 to May 1945, the plant manufactured 2.5 mln PPSh submachine guns, 350.000 OPSh and SPSh pistols. With the end of the war, however, the Arsenal, like the soviet union itself, began slowly to adapt, to further serve the state during the now cold war, an emphasis was placed on development and economics, and the plant began to produce a number of new designs by the now famous designers Shpagin and Stechkin. In the late 1950s, the RPK light machinegun, a heavy duty version of the iconic Kalashnakov was developed at Izvesk and it was decided, as the Izhvesk Arsenal plant was already stretched to full production, to move the manufacture of the RPK to Vjatskiye Poljany and have the expertise of Izhvesk in making the transition as smooth as possible.
Throughout the Cold War period the Vjatskie Poljany Arsenal steamed ahead, producing not only the RPK, but making a wide spectrum of weaponry including anti-aircraft cannons, grenade launchers for Infantry and Navy and six variations of belt-fed MGs. The plant also produced a number of domestic goods deemed necessary to the general welfare of the state, diversifying into motorcycle sidecars, stoves and gramophones
With the slow wind down of the Cold War, however, the world again was a changing place for the Soviet Union. Defense spending slashed, the government began to restructure and focus on joining the world economy, and once again pressed the factory at Vjatskiye Poljany into service, now making primarily the tools of production, machine tools, food processing machines, while continuing to make dwindling numbers of military arms and some consumer goods.
Restructuring was inevitable, and in 1992, the Vjatskie Poljany Arsenal and Manufacturing Plant became MOLOT (Hammer) Joint Stock Company. MOLOT JSC, as the factory was now known, was called on to now support itself financially, as the era of running an essential national factory at loss to ensure national security was coming to a close. Russia was rejoining the world after decades of isolation. The designers at the newly coined MOLOT plant did not shy from the challenge, drawing from their rich history of innovation and exceptional production ability, they sprung into action.
In 1994, they began production on a new civilian sporting weapon line, the Vepr (wild boar) based on their RPK, as well as a series of sporting rifles based on the Simonov Rifles, called the OP-SKS.
In less than five years, MOLOT designed several configurations of the Vepr rifle in various calibers: 7.62x39, .308 WIN., .35 REM., .222 REM. And .223 REM, as well as the three new variations of the sporting RPK, the Super Vepr, Vepr Hunter and the Vepr Pioneer, and a number of custom show rifles. Again calling on the expertise of the factory in nearby Izhvesk, who had already gone through similar adjustments and was now called IZHMASH JSC and had developed its own line of civilian sporting arms. Along with these rifles, the engineers at MOLOT made a series of the Bekas (Snipe) shotguns and a modification of the PMS (Modernized Stechkin Pistol) in 9x19 Luger. And again building upon the development made by Izmash, they developed the Vepr-12 autoloading shotgun, a direct competitor to the tactical version of Izmash's Saiga-12.
In 1997, the MOLOT JSC signed an agreement to sell Vepr carbines to the United States, a far step from the politics of the cold war, or the utilitarian purpose of WWII production.
Today, a variety of weapons are produced at the old Vjatskie Poljany plant under MOLOT JSC, and shipped all over the world, as the plant continues to innovate, from re-arsenal-ing guns from the scrap heap of history, and giving them new life in civilian hands, much as the plant itself found new life, to creating new parts and accessories for a variety of markets.
There is your history lesson, the future of these weapons is what you make of it.
Back to the VEPR, I would be interested in what owners' experience has been with these Molot"AK-style" semi-auto sporting rifles in the various calibers. From everything I have read, the weapons are not really AKs, since the VEPRs have their own proprietary magazines (the ones in 7.62x39 will not accept standard AK mags). The weapons certainly resemble an AK design, but how do they shoot? I'm especially interested in the ones that are chambered for 7.62x54r or 7.62x51 NATO. Are they more accurate than a typical AK or Saiga? Would they make good hunting rifles? One thing is certain; the rifles look good and seem high quality. If they shoot as good as they look, I would like to have one.
I cannot comment on the MOLOT Mosins, as I don't have much knowledge on those, but I LOVE my Vepr .308.Higher refinement than my Saigas. Very nice semi auto rifles. I I had to get rid of my AKs but 1, I'd keep my Vepr. Hell, if my wife gave me an ultimatum of her or the Vepr, I'd probably keep the Vepr .308 because the bark isn't as loud.
tjtM38 wrote:Back to the VEPR, I would be interested in what owners' experience has been with these Molot"AK-style" semi-auto sporting rifles in the various calibers. From everything I have read, the weapons are not really AKs, since the VEPRs have their own proprietary magazines (the ones in 7.62x39 will not accept standard AK mags). The weapons certainly resemble an AK design, but how do they shoot? I'm especially interested in the ones that are chambered for 7.62x54r or 7.62x51 NATO. Are they more accurate than a typical AK or Saiga? Would they make good hunting rifles? One thing is certain; the rifles look good and seem high quality. If they shoot as good as they look, I would like to have one.
Good review by Mac, I saw this vid a while back and it set the stage to me buying my own
Sirex wrote:I cannot comment on the MOLOT Mosins, as I don't have much knowledge on those, but I LOVE my Vepr .308.Higher refinement than my Saigas. Very nice semi auto rifles. I I had to get rid of my AKs but 1, I'd keep my Vepr. Hell, if my wife gave me an ultimatum of her or the Vepr, I'd probably keep the Vepr .308 because the bark isn't as loud.
Sirex wrote:I cannot comment on the MOLOT Mosins, as I don't have much knowledge on those, but I LOVE my Vepr .308.Higher refinement than my Saigas. Very nice semi auto rifles. I I had to get rid of my AKs but 1, I'd keep my Vepr. Hell, if my wife gave me an ultimatum of her or the Vepr, I'd probably keep the Vepr .308 because the bark isn't as loud.
I'm afraid I was misunderstood. I meant I was sorry I looked because now I'm lusting for a VEPR. I think it's awesome, and I also love my 3 Molot M44's since I'm more a shooter than collector. Apologies to everyone. Now, back to figuring out what I could sell to get a VEPR... and what caliber..... I don't really NEED two kidneys....
the music might be a bit strong for some, but it was the perfect background music for the video....as we made a few people upset with the Vepr, but also had quite a few people interested in it as well.....the range employees were a bit miffed because we sent a few patrons packing for home. Which I find ironic since they rent out a .50 BMG nearly everytime we are there and that is a tad bit louder than the vepr. All I can say if you wanted one, it is a definite must have for everyones collection. Tons of fun and accurate to boot.
Let me make a short, open, blanket comment. There are no good guns. There are no bad guns. Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a descent person is no threat to anyone--- except bad people. -- Charleton Heston
Guns are not good, they are not evil. Save those descriptions for the people holding the firearm. -- Unknown
1943 Izhevsk
1937 Izhevsk
1935/48/50 Tula (hex)
1939 Tula (laminate stock)
And many other firearms
Thanks you guys, and I was quite shocked to see just how low the fireball starts out in slow mo....I'll have to grab a few screen caps of the vid and post them. Thanks for the views too
