1900 Izhevsk Finn M91..........I think.

[catcracker]

While looking for a store for Christmas shopping, and I got off track somehow, and came across a pawn shop I didn't know about. I went in and was surprised to see some Mosin Nagants. First one was a more common Izhevsk, in the 1940s range. Nothing outstanding about it, and he wanted 269. So not looking good on prices. The third was a M44. Nice, but not better priced than what AIM has. And I didn't have the money to consider it after the second one I saw.
Then I spoted the second one. First thing I noticed was the two piece stock. I have never seen one in person. Just in books, and here on the forum. Then I found the SA mark. These things alone got my attention fast. Then the fancy arsonal writing, and a date of 1900 got my heart going a little faster. Then see the different barrel bands, sites, etc, got me getting more questions in my head than I knew what to do with. I knew I had something special. So I checked my reference book in the car, and found that it could be a M91. I am still new at this, so I texted some folks for some quick advice. All sounded good. The price was 369.
The rifle was pretty beat up, and I kind of used that as a, "well......I don't know......" kind of conversation. The shop owner was Russian, and probably knew these rifles well. So I was thinking I would not be able to talk him down. I throw out a number, and he said sure. Darn. If I would have had more ba***, and thrown out a lower number, I might have gotten it even cheaper. (or maybe this isn't a good deal anyway. We'll see) So I got this rifle, what I think is a M91 for $250.00 out the door.
I know this is in extremely used condition. But I think it has a LOT of history. It spoke to me, and I am very happy with it. The pics make the wear look a little more extreme than I think it is in person. Also, these pics are before I cleaned it up.(except for first 2 pics) The lemon oil on the stock did wonders. And almost all the surface rust came off with very little effort. Barrel is dark, and is not counterbored. But it may shine up after a few rounds. The pawn shop owner said he fired it. But it doesn't look like its been fired your many years.
I really like this one. So if you find fault with it, that is ok. Go ahead and say so. I would like some honest evaluations. Some pics have comments, and questions. Please answer if you can.

Special thanks to the folks I texted. Names withheld to protect their privacy.

Thanks all.
Happy Holidays.
Cat

PS. This does not have a handguard. Should it? Please look at barrel band pics, and see if it needs replaced, or did it not have one to begin with.

PSS Bolt and barrel numbers match. Nothing else matchs.

After cleaning.



Looks like date was ground off. I guess I will never know year/arsonal of receiver.


Firing pin has R in circle. May have to zoom in.


Cocking head has been filed down on bottom. Is this common? I have seen this a few times.


Circle R again.


Finland S inside gear circle on extractor. You may have to zoom. What does that mean?


E on handle.




SA mark.


Handguard missing?








Tape mark did come off. If you zoom, you can see the cross cannons with the Z in the middle. Finland Arms Depot Mark. Looks like a soldier got bored, and used the firing pin to punch in the cannons on all four corners.





There are marks in this pic. I have seen them before. But I can't remember what they mean. You may have to zoom.

[Junk Yard Dog]

People have been spoiled by all the pretty red shellac refurbs out there, this rifle is what a real issued milsurp that has seen years of war looks like. A little lemon oil will blend in the scuff , and dry scratch marks as well as remove some dirt. What you have is a great looking Finn M1891 with Finn stock, sling hangers, and trigger job, I hope you were careful pulling that action out of the wood in case any metal shims were in there. If so they need to be kept in order, and were they came from, they are not as common on the M91's as they are on other Finn built rifles. These were the most commonly used rifle in Finn hands during the Winter and Continuation wars, it has a great look to it, much like my 1940 VKT, been there, kicked ass, and did it all look

[BubbaDX]

That is a very cool old rifle.

[Homer2]

Little beat up, but looks good. It should have the hand guard, those run about $50. Maybe Liberty Tree.

Finns cared about matching the bolt, but nothing else, so the rest of the numbers don't affect the value or authenticity.

[Three_Dogs]

Ya Did Good!

[zeebill]

Wow that baby has seen more than we'll ever guess I would say. Price a little on the high side figuring in the fact that the hand guard is missing and the bore condition is unknown till you fire it. But on the plus side the cleaning rod is there, Finnish produced stock with crossed cannons (subcontractor identification by the way), Type 1 older barrel bands which show you slots for metal hand guard fingers, plenty of field wear and tear, and the most important thing of all. It spoke to you! I use that as the final measure of whether I will buy a rifle or not! A scrubbed tang like you have tells me the Finns did some work setting the action in the stock. That circled TK stamp has meaning on the upper side of the tang too and I am going to let you look at the sites available to find out just what. Tall Finnish Ladies do wonders for my outlook on the day and I thank you for sharing those great pictures with us. If anyone that finds a rifle sees them they should remember what a great layout you have done and follow your lead! That was like holding the rifle in my hands right here and now. Great Job!

Your assesment of the shop owners saying he had fired the rifle is just exactly what I would have taken it for considering the bore and overall condition of the rifle. I have found over the years that it is wise to completely ignore the Pawn Shop dealers story and use your own observations to judge things about the rifle. I think you did well and can certainly see where that rifle would have talked to me too. Again echoing JYD's comments about not taking 100 refurbs for that rifle seems about right to me! Congrats! Bill Made My Day!!!!

[Junk Yard Dog]

Not a bad price by todays prices, I have seen Finn M91's going for over $400 on GB, even more sometimes. Handguards are available, and the rifle will clean up some.

[BuckeyeSgt]

That is one old Finn that has seen a lot of history. Very nice.

[desdem12]

What a great rifle. I love it. Has lots of stuff going for it. I would have bought it for that myself.

[bunkysdad]

E X C E L L E N T!!! I love this gun. You mean it spoke to you, now that's what I'm talking about. They do speak if we listen. The Terrance Lapin book states that M91's prior to 1910 did not originally have handguards. Just read that last night. The Finns might have saw fit to add one, and any later refurb might add one, but it seems funny to me that every m91 that pops up without a handguard is a older one it seems, and the first thing everyone says is it needs a handguard. I don't know about all that. Thanks for sharing. It looks like it was just picked up on the battlefield.:P

[catcracker]

This one not only spoke to me, it slapped me upside the head.
Thanks for the comment.
I did read the same about the handguard. That is why I posted a pic of the barrel bands, hoping someone could tell if it had one to start with or not. Liberty has them for sale. So now I am up in the air about it. I suppose I could get one to have. Then if I find out later it doesn't belong, I could just take it off. Hhhmmmm.

[desdem12]

It may have not had one to start with....,BUT. It went through the upgrades and would have had one then likely. The magazine has been upgraded or replaced, The stock obviously has ben replaced by a finn 2 piece so the other upgrades are gone if they happened and the sight was upgraded by one or the other. (finns or russians). The barrel bands make no difflerence as to handguards. They are no.1 type and both can hold the handguard. It is not neccessary to have one and if this one did it was long ago gone.

[Steve The Pirate]

Neat war horse. I think it looks great as is . That stock has been around the block a few times, it would be hard to find a handguard that matches.

Thanks for posting.

[clayshooter2]

1900 Izhevsk are tougher to find than Tula. Good job!

[Jumperwire]

Very nice. I love the part about your heart beating faster. I love that feeling. I have a P-26 that is missing the hand guard as well. I chose to just leave it alone, however it's your choice. I can't remember where I seen them for sale. It was $50. Maybe it was Liberty Tree. That one has a lot of history on it. You will probably find something new, every time you look at it. Congrats.

[Longcolt44]

What a great rifle. You did exceptional. A Russian pawn shop owner We would become very good friends.

[Jumperwire]

What a great rifle. You did exceptional. A Russian pawn shop owner We would become very good friends.

[BuckeyeSgt]

I'm glad I didn't steer you wrong in the 30 texts we sent.

[cj1964]

Nice find Cat!
That rifle has indeed seen a lot. It's a little rough, but finding an M91 for less than $250 is not easy! You did good.
The bolt is Finnish and American parts. I've got an M91 with the same ground down cocking knob - I assume they did it for clearance at the back, but I don't know why... did the later cocking knobs have a bigger circumference that required this? I don't think so, but I don't know. The buttplate marks are supposedly Finnish civil guard acceptance marks. Given the age of the gun, I'd assume it didn't have a handguard when new, but who knows what it may have worn while in Finland.
Excellent photos and write up! Thanks for sharing it with us.
CJ

[clayshooter2]

By 1900 it had a hand guard originally. The early cocking knobs were shaped that way, they were not ground down. It wasn't untill the 91/30's that they went to the completely round cocking knob IIRC.