Did my first cleaning, had a few question?

[z31jaime]

Ok well today durring the day i decided I was going to take the m38 and clean it... before I did this I decided to do a "feed cycle" to make sure everything was working as it should. I don't have blanks, or empty shells, so I had to use live rounds and be careful . Loaded 1 round, cycled but it was so hard to cycle the bolt got right to the point where you should turn it down but refued to move , backed it up, and round was stuck in the chamber refused so come out so I took the cleaning rod from the front gave it a little push and it fell right out.

Figured the issue was dirty gun, so I took it all apart as the youtube videos show, cleaned the barrel, bolt, etc etc etc. Tried the feed cycle after assembly, and the 1st round feeds like it should and ejects, but all the following round get hung up like the orignal one did the first time... (they are no longer getting stuck in the chaimber, just the bolt refuses to close)

Found this video online, you can see when he has to force his, thats exactly where mine sticks, I can force it like him but using live rounds I wasn't comfortable putting all that force on it at first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG36d4UxhDw

Did some reading online and people say burs in the chaimber or just gunk, did some more cleaning and with a brass brush in the chamber itself, new brass brush came out black.... tried it again and with a little force (like video above) got 3 to cycle, before the jam again. figured I'm making progress and kept cleaning some more.... tried again and now, back to the orignal 1st one locking up....

so my question is, keep cleaning? am I doing something wrong? should I be looking at other things other than cleaning the chamber?

This is actualy my First Rifle EVER as I'm more of a hand gun person, so any input would be great. Also hand loaded no stripper clips and made sure the rims were set like they should be...so I doubt its Rim lock.

additionaly I took fresh rounds and fed them and noticed scratches on them after the cycle, so Its looking like a bur to me... but wanted to talk with the masses and see.

[desdem12]

You may have a buggered up extractor or you may just need to clean the chamber better. Use the hot water method. Take boiling water and pour it down the barrel from the breach area and then clean with hoppes and then oil. If this doesn't fix it then we can help you from there.
Edit: I didn't see the part where you got a scratch on the ammo. Clean it like above and then inspect for the burr and you should be able to find it. Someone will have a way to get the burr out.

[z31jaime]

I'm not super worried as my grandfather was a Machinists back in the day,, so I'm sure once he sees it he will have some Ideas... Just wanted to make sure it wasn't user error on my part.

[pacanis]

Funny you should bring this up. I had the exact same problem today after firing a couple shots and blamed it on cosmoline. I just cleaned the crap out of the chamber and inspected it with a flashlight and it's clean as a bean, I even see the relief now where the extractor sits on a closed bolt, and now the problem is hit or miss. I am trying it on spent shells. (BTW, I hope using live rounds that you are doing this outside pointed at the ground...) Anyway, I inspected the bolt head and extractor and compared it to another and I do not think that is the problem. It must be something in the chamber, but beats me what. Some close easily and some hit something

[desdem12]

If you have a buggered up extractor it will be hit or miss some times, look at it on the bolt side it should be smooth or close to it. If it has some lines on it where it is sticking on the rim it will be hard to close the bolt on it. I will try to get some pics for you if you need them. You can lightlky buff out the lines on the extractor or maybe get a new one. REmember that these break pretty easy so you have to be gentle.

[z31jaime]

photos would be great please...

[pacanis]

There is definitely a shine on the outside of my extractor where it is hitting.

BTW, Jaime, these can't get rimlock because of the way the magazine only allows one cartridge up at a time. If you load a couple and push them down into the magazine you'll see what I mean. The bolt going back releases the top one up far enough to feed and it doesn't touch the next in line. Pretty slick, huh?

[z31jaime]

LOL nice. thanks I had my Buddy take a look at it (hes an AK guy) so the bolt action is completly new to him also, but he said he thinks its just gunk in the chamber, no matter how much I clean it it still keeps coming out black. he thinks its still the cosmoline (or however its spelled) gunked up in there causing it to be 2 tight. I was using his cleaning kit, so I'm gonna pick up another kit tonight an use the hot water trick and see.

[desdem12]

Here is one of mine, it works good but i have seen them with a lot of burrs on them and they have a hard time closeing the bolt.

[z31jaime]

HOLY HD PHOTO . LOL thanks now I know what I'm looking for . wish I had a cam to take pick like that with.

[pacanis]

That's a great, detailed pic, Des. I just figured out how to zoom in on this forum, too. I wouldn't have thought to look for a burr on the extractor face. That's not my problem, but good info to file away.

[desdem12]

This thing is a crappy piece of s... It just has a macro setting on it. Sorry about the words they looked good on the one i did but if you click on the pic and then on the zoom it will show up. This bolt is on a M44 that is a sweet functioning rifle. I did have a 91/30 that had about 4 lines on the face of the extractor and it had trouble closing. After a slight polish it worked like a champ. Just go easy on it if you have to and you will be fine.

[pacanis]

This thing is a crappy piece of s... It just has a macro setting on it. Sorry about the words they looked good on the one i did but if you click on the pic and then on the zoom it will show up. This bolt is on a M44 that is a sweet functioning rifle. I did have a 91/30 that had about 4 lines on the face of the extractor and it had trouble closing. After a slight polish it worked like a champ. Just go easy on it if you have to and you will be fine.

Piece of crap? That was a great pic. Perfect detail.

[z31jaime]

Updated with Pix and Video...

Ok so #1 I went to the store and picked up my own cleaning kit and some Hopps #9. gave it another good cleaning, this time spending most of my time on the chamber, took a brass brush to it and cleaned all the gunk and crap out of it.... and boy was it dirty.

#2 inspected the extractor. Looks to be super clean looking. i didn't notice any strange marks on it. It wasn't a "mirror" finish but it was shiny.
what I did notice that I'm not sure if its normal or not is that it looks slightly bent at 1 point. I took photos as best I could to show this...



see looking clean ...


This is the location of the "bend"


from the other side...


if thats normal please let me know....

OK so moving on....

After i put it all back together, I then decided to load 1 round and cycle.... Jammed up right way. Picked up a different round put it in and BAM cycled just fine...repeated process several times with that round and to my DELIGHT its working. So then I decided to try 2 rounds....First one was a little sticky, 2nd one was a No go. removed rounds and tried again. this time first one refused to go. At that point I took the following video....


(special thanks to the wife for holding the cam.)

so I'm thinking its something in the feed system....

frustrated by my inablity to win with this thing I started cleaning up . then I realized that I have been using the same 3 rounds over and over again, and that 1 always seemd to work, and one alway got stuck in the chaimber and refused to come out unless I put the cleaing rod in and pushed it out. Got me thinking... what if its the Ammo... I started checking them out and noticed that the Rims on them had lots of burs... so I tested each one by itself and found the 1 that always cycled... I then loaded that one as #2 and and then #3 in the group sure enought when i got to that round it workd fine the other 2 Failed or were extremly hard to get the bolt to close. then went and opened a fresh pack of ammo, and pulled another clean one out... BAM both cycled just Fine, Very ruff and sticky, but they went. With that I put the gun away and decided to check out the ammo... I know its probably old surplus ammo but is it possible I got a few jacked up ones, or maybe they are reloads? They came wrapped in paper with some string around them. and a $6 price tag stuck to them... some have burs on the rims, some have marks on the cases, and others look to be discolord...almost the same color as the bullet itself. If I need to take some pix let me know......

From reading online this makes me think it could be a headspace issue?

[Ironnewt]

When you use the same rounds time after time you get all manner of issues. You MAY get bullet set back (the bullet gets pushed back into the case) which will cause increased chamber pressure (Very Bad) You may get all manner of nicks and dings on the rim from the ejector and extractor which will also cause problems but that's not as bad as the bullet set back in my opinion. Just be careful. Are you still getting lots of gunk out of the chamber? have you tried a 20 gauge shotgun brush? Use a variable speed drill and a cut down length of cleaning rod and plenty of your favorite cleaning product. (Hoppe's #9 is good for this) Good Luck.

[z31jaime]

Thats exactly what I used, shotgun brushes. its Super clean now... so I have no idea what it could be, I was thinking that a buddy of mine has one of the regular MNs, would the bolt from his work on mine? maybe i could swap them for a moment to rule out the extractor right?

[z31jaime]

Well Its going to the gunsmith tomorrow. I thank everyone for their help, but with so many different possiblities I figure Ill pay them to just fix it so I can enjoy it.

Of any Headspace test and test fire by them is going to be like $10.... so I'm super happy about that.

[Junk Yard Dog]

Not a bad price for the job.

[entropy]

He should replace that extractor.The reason it has that bend in it is because it was too long to begin with; it's still sitting more forward than it should. If he doesn't replace the extractor, be sure to do it yourself, or resubmit it to him to have it done.

[Ironnewt]

Keep us posted on this.